giuliani attacks stormy daniels. transcript: 06/07/2018. the beat with ari melber
Show: Beats with ARI MELBERDate: June 7, 2018, Ali MELBER, MSNBC host: Chuck, good evening. Thank you very much. Tonight, I want to start with four facts that are the most important. First, Donald Trump is under investigation for obstructing justice. Second, several of Trump\'s former aides have pleaded guilty or have been charged with crimes related to obstruction such as lying to the federal government. Third, the head of the Trump campaign was charged with tampering with witnesses this week. One of the more serious ways to block any investigation. Fourth, Bob Miller looks for new clues by looking at the phone of the witness and reading the information they used to encrypt. Then five, one of the most powerful people on the Trump track is Sean hanniti, who is reportedly talking to Trump daily by conservative activists and television hosts, it\'s also one of the only other clients Trump\'s troubled lawyer, Michael Cohen. But take these five facts into account now, because they make what we are going to show you particularly legally important. I don\'t mean some kind of media Review story. I mean, it\'s a story about what\'s going on at Trump\'s White House. Because equally influential man Sean hanniti is now telling potential witnesses and subjects in Miller\'s investigation to destroy the evidence and hammer the phone into pieces. ( Start Video Editing) Fox News anchor Sean hanniti: they asked witnesses to hand over their phones under Hillary Clinton. Delete all your emails and then use the email and hard drive on the pickling phone. Then hit your phone with a hammer into little itsy-bitsy pieces. (END VIDEO CLIP) Hanniti\'s defense lawyer may call it an ironic or poetic permission, but language is language. Sean hanniti lives by his words and we know that his words will have a huge impact. Another way to understand these words is why this is such an important story tonight and if someone does what Sean hanniti has to say, they will commit a crime. If Sean hanniti is their lawyer and tells them to do so, he may be disqualified from a lawyer or even prosecuted. As Miller gets closer to potential goals, that\'s what\'s happening in this country right now. This is not an exercise. It\'s not just a casual commentator. People around Donald Trump may join hands and logically continue to say that these words by Sean hanniti are actually speaking on Trump\'s behalf. Now, not only is Donald Trump a channel for Fox News, he has recruited new members from the Channel. The number of people has increased, and criminal defense lawyers have been hired immediately from the screen. now there are new reports that, trump may be trying to hire Fox celebrity Jenny Piero to take steps at the Justice Department that people he\'s currently appointed will not take. Political coverage, which is a serious process, she was interviewed by the hard work of the Justice Department and may even include an agreement with Bob Miller\'s boss. Let me say it again, as the agreement of Bob Miller\'s boss. Now, while Pirro is a lawyer, legal experts know that her experience with the federal side is far less than that of most senior officials on either side of the Justice Department and any government. She has a more dubious background in this public party and conspiracy theory, which is often preferred by any other government to disqualify people from law enforcement positions. ( Start Video Editing) Jenny Piero, Fox News anchor: It was a fishing adventure because Jim Comey started a bad life. He became a political prostitute. McCabe, this guy needs to be taken out of the cuff. Hillary and Bill made money in the deal. The Obama and Clinton sold us out. Look. These people belong to the prison. Lock her up. (END VIDEO CLIP) Melber: Tonight, Rudy Giuliani, Trump\'s actual employee, is pushing for a conspiracy theory that Mueller will take on Donald Trump. From an accurate point of view, hanniti has been pushing. ( Start Video Editing) Hanniti: Mueller has set a huge perjury trap for the president of the United States. The special adviser is determined to set up perjury for President Trump. I think he will fall directly into the trap of perjury. The only purpose of the presidential interview is to set a trap for perjury. (END VIDEO CLIP) Melber: put everything in. Go in together. You know, one of the common criticisms of Donald Trump is that he lives in a television world and acts like a reality TV star he used to be. Now, this criticism seems to think that his approach has limitations and that he will suffer when it comes into contact with the real world. But Donald Trump is president. The Congress rarely fought against him. So if he does authorize enough people on Fox News and hire enough people from Fox News, then maybe one day Donald Trump is no longer the odd one. The Justice Department itself can be run by television actors, and the show will be responsible for reality. Former water gate incident expert Nick Ackerman, former federal prosecutor Joyce Vance and Natasha Bertrand, who is in charge of the \"Atlantic\" Mueller investigation, also joined me. \"Nick, do you think this is bigger than the story about a loud commentator? This is an entertainer, if you want, but a story about the idea of the White House and the way they approach without a probe? Nick Ackerman, former prosecutor of the water gate incident: Yes. I think the idea of the White House is to tamper with witnesses. Sean hanniti admits and is actually luring people to do it and asks them to do it is to destroy evidence that violates witness tampering regulations. It is not only people who undermine the testimony, but also people who actually ask others to do it. I mean, if you just look at the language of the statute, whoever deliberately convinces another person or tries to do so with the intention of causing or inducing anyone to change, destroy, to destroy or hide objects in order to damage the integrity of the object or the availability used in the official procedure, promise 20-year felony. He did it on TV. We are now engaged in a series of witness tampering. We have already contacted Manafort and he will have to answer this question in front of the judge tomorrow, and the result will probably go straight to jail. We made up a story for Don Junnier with Donald Trump, and Don Junnier and others can make up a fake story at the June 9 meeting. This is all witness tampering. This is a crime that did not exist in the era of the water gate incident. It is a crime that has been separated, a five-year felony, and Congress is now convicted of a more serious crime with a maximum penalty of 20 years. Melber: Joyce, let me play more Sean hanniti for you, because, of course, there\'s a lot of room for freedom of speech, sarcasm, jokes, for all this kind of thing. However, it does happen in the context of the actual tampering that happened in a week, and I would say, to some extent, the White House\'s unprecedented language does not say that Donald Trump is innocent, but that he can block what he wants, which is very close to the environment that hinders encouragement. Hanniti was here last night to talk about removing SIM cards and using bleach. ( Start Video Editing) Hanniti: Take the SIM card and hand it over to Robert Miller, saying that Hillary Rodman Clinton is equal justice under the law. (END VIDEO CLIP)MELBER: Joyce? Former federal prosecutor Joyce Vance: hanniti seems very well versed in how to wipe the phone, so I think if I\'m Bob Mueller, I might have some questions about what he did with his device. But you see, this is an act of condemnation. No responsible person on TV, no responsible person The so-called journalism should advocate the destruction of evidence in serious federal investigations. This is to be condemned. Sadly, more is what we expect from the people around this president. It is hoped that Fox may impose some sanctions on hanniti because of this behavior. But I don\'t think we\'ll see him prosecuted. Federal prosecutors have given broad support to acts related to the First Amendment. So unless there is something more specific to link up, I think it would be something that we often classify as horrible but legitimate. MELBER: Right. Natasha, I am not saying that these words constitute a crime. Although, as Joyce said, this is a fairly low standard for discussing whether this is appropriate or not, especially if we are talking about how the country should work, Sean hanniti has done a lot, many projects on law and order and accountability, and what should happen to people who do not comply with the law. These are clearly laws that we respect for government investigations. More broadly, hear from him and Trump. ( Start Video Editing) Hanniti: Your community is getting hurt and you pay a lot of money for illegal immigration, crime and drugs. US President Donald Trump: We will bring criminals, drug lords, to the hands of gang members. We need to get them out. Hanniti: when it comes to acknowledging the violence that took place, both sides were involved in the fight. Trump: I think it\'s the responsibility of both sides. (END VIDEO CLIP) Natasha, you take a closer look at the probe and take us through the role that someone like Hannity plays in your opinion, Jeanine Pirro can and may be the boss of Bob Mueller. Natasha Bertrand, Atlantic CORRESPONDENT: Well, Donald Trump really likes people who defend him on TV. I mean, he\'s watching Fox News most of the day. He looked at the agent and he looked at those who would go out and defend with something that was almost undefensible, and at this point, these were unfounded attacks on Robert Mueller, you know, it was all an attempt to frame him. But I think it is very important to mention that hanniti is not a neutral player. I mean, Sean hanniti has potential legal holes, especially since there is evidence that he might be talking to Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks-after the election, julian Assange visited a twitter account he thought belonged to Sean hanniti and said let\'s communicate on another platform. This may be evidence that Sean hanniti had previously communicated with Julian Assange. Then there is another question as to whether or not he has been involved in this relationship between stomi Daniels\'s former lawyer Keith Davidson and Michael Cohen in any way. Of course, he hired Michael Cohen as his lawyer, so there was some strange relationship there. Michael avenati mentioned him in the court papers filed yesterday, his current lawyer for Daniel. Therefore, the attack by hanniti here is not all about defending the president. He is also facing the way of exposure, maybe he is trying to pre-empt now. MELBER: Right. Given Michael Cohen\'s top priority this week, you have made a lot of points. Nick Ackerman, I \'d like to read more of the version of the event by Sean hanniti, because we play the voices that people can judge for themselves. It was written by The Washington Post. Then he will say he is joking and repeat the suggestion. Quote \"The advice I gave them is not a joke. Hillary\'s advice was terrible. But the Washington Post notes that he then raised the issue again in a serious discussion with lawyer Joe diGenova, who likes criminal defense counsel for these complex-related players, Donald Trump. So not-look. Let me say that. With all due respect, the show is not known for comedy or bond Horney. ACKERMAN: No. But this is also very similar to what I saw when I sued organized crime figures before. What they will do is work hard. They told people to destroy the evidence and throw it away, and then they just said, I\'m just kidding. I mean, it\'s kind of like blinking and nodding, but what they want you to do is destroy the evidence. Melber: just like the deal we did, don\'t tell anyone, but, you know, haha, isn\'t that fun? I mean, what\'s the trick? That\'s right. It\'s like having the truth and the truth. MELBER: Yes. I mean, this is the conversation you can repeat over and over again. I assure you that if you show up tomorrow at the hearing at Paul Manafort, you will get a similar story and he doesn\'t really mean it. He\'s just getting in touch with old friends. He really didn\'t want them to change their story. He\'s just investigating his case. You will see the same nonsense. Melber: Let me introduce Joyce briefly. You think Paul Manafort is now more likely to face the pre-Trial detention? Vance: I think Manafort is likely to faceTrial detention. I have never seen a prosecutor and a judge without anger, and any other offence when one is told that he cannot commit any new federal offence or at the time of release. When he tried to tamper with witnesses who questioned the integrity of the criminal justice system. Our trial is based on the fact that witnesses will appear in court to testify truthfully and that the jury can conclude what exactly happened in the case of the government\'s alleged criminal conduct. So what Manafort did really hit the heart of what the criminal justice system should avoid. I think he\'s going to jail. MELBER: Wow. Thank you to each and every one of you, Joyce Vance, Natasha Bertrand and Nick Ackerman. Next, Giuliani turned her attention to a personal attack on stomi Daniels, saying she was not credible because of her work. ( Start Video Editing) Giuliani: Sorry. I don\'t respect porn stars like I do respect professional women, material women or women who respect themselves very much. (END VIDEO CLIP) Today, the Democratic Party took Trump to court because he earned money from his presidency. We have senators who led the case tonight. Trump stands beside a troubled cabinet official who has become a poster boy for the craziest people in the swamp. A minute later, the art of trading Author Tony Schwartz says Trump plays emotionally and you have to understand it to fight it. I`m Ari Melber. You\'re watching the beat on MSNBC. ( Business break) Melber: stomi Daniels\'s allegations this week that Trump and Michael Cohen are trying to amicably collude with her former lawyers have made Donald Trump even more angry. The hot spot right now could be Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani, who attacked Daniels for not being credible because she works in the adult film industry. ( Start Video Editing) Giuliani: Sorry. I don\'t respect porn stars, just like I respect professional women, material women or sell her body for sexual exploitation as a woman and a person who doesn\'t intend to do so with great respect for her own women Very, very reliable sources. Porn star stomi. The industry you are in does not have any impact on your credibility. Explain how she was damaged. She has no reputation. (END VIDEO CLIP) Melber: a few things. First of all, it\'s a legal dispute and Daniels\'s career has nothing to do with her credibility. Of course, counsel Rudy Giuliani knows that too. Second, Trump paid Daniels, lied, and then admitted part of it. The only person who has been publicly lied in this dispute is Donald Trump, who is Rudy\'s client, Michael Cohen, who is under investigation, not Daniel Daniels. Third, if you follow the logic of Rudy Giuliani, there will be a problem with the porn stars, what about the man who sleeps with them and pays them to keep them silent? That\'s exactly what NBC News asked Rudy Giuliani today. He paused and said, I think the same thing applies, but that\'s not the problem. Daniels denied the relationship before admitting it. Fourth, as is often the case now, the tape tells the story. So, let\'s compare Giuliani\'s respectable argument about Daniel with his own client, yes. (Start Video) Giuliani: Sorry, I don\'t respect porn stars, just like I respect a professional or material woman or a woman who is very respectful of herself as a woman and someone who will not sell because of sexual exploitation of her body Very, very reliable sources. The porn star of the storm. Trump: I was automatically attracted by beauty. I just started kissing them. Like a magnet. They will let you do it when you are a star. You can do everything. Catch them (bleep). Do anything. (END VIDEO CLIP) When you are a star. Yes, let\'s talk about the credibility of ourselves. declared stars. So that\'s part of the debate that President lawyers are using his public platform today. This is not normal. Rudy Giuliani then raised the quick condemnation of Daniels\'s appearance or his views on them. (Start Video) GIULIANI: I don\'t even think a little doubt is true when you look at Stormy Daniels. I know Donald Trump and unidentified women: Let\'s respect her. Giuliani: look at his three wives. Beautiful woman, elegant woman, material woman. Stormy Daniels. Woman: I just got angry. Woman: A fool who hates women Are you kidding? Unidentified woman: being an adult movie star doesn\'t make you a liar. Woman: Rudy Giuliani believes that the way he protects the president of the United States is by trying to devalue and devalue a woman who has made seemingly credible allegations against the president. (END VIDEOTAPE) Christina Greer is a researcher at the Mike Silver Institute at New York University. Sophia Nelson, former committee member of the Republican House Supervisory Committee, author of the women\'s code. ”Christina. Christina greer, researcher at the McSilver Institute at New York University: I mean, I think there are so many people all day saying how infuriating it is. But we must remind everyone who Rudy Giuliani is. Keep in mind that this is the first black mayor in New York City four years ago when David Dinkins was mayor. It\'s like Donald Trump\'s campaign won President Barack Obama eight years. So we know why these two are. Stomi Daniels\'s career has nothing to do with whether or not she makes credible allegations against the president. He knows that. He knows that 19 other women have seen Daniel\'s approach to the media and Republicans, which is why many of them have not made public statements. So, we\'re not saying it\'s their fault. But we know that this country, this country that is a man and a woman, has always treated women like this. Right? As I said before, this is based on capitalism, white supremacy,- Black racism and parent-teacher system. We see it every day in this rigid (ph)administration. The fact that Daniel\'s career in the storm has nothing to do with the fact that Donald Trump, like his lawyer, is a sick liar. So why can\'t we go back to the real question? The real problem is not that Rudy Giuliani is waving a towel in Israel, you know, just tucking in his mouth. So far, we are used to it. In fact, we must constantly enlarge the facts. Rudy Giuliani, what is the truth? Your client lied. Your client said he didn\'t pay and now we find out he paid. Your clients are always surrounded by cheats. Your client is always with someone who is willing to lie for Donald Trump. So, let\'s focus on this, not on the occupation of stomi Daniels. Stomi Daniels is a space physicist. That doesn\'t mean Donald Trump didn\'t sleep with her, and didn\'t pay her back, right. Why are we talking about this? Because I think it goes deeper into the country\'s values of the pilgrims, because we also know that the sex industry is a billion-dollar industry, so that value has never been completely correct. Not only do people play the leading role in it. It is also the person who supports it. Melber: Well, I think if we\'re going to talk about porn, Sophia, people can make arguments that I think people can make, if we assume there are some problems there-men will be the biggest driver of pornography. Sophia Nelson, a former Republican committee adviser to the House: Well, there are a few things. First, my opinion is a little different. In fact, what Rudy Giuliani is trying to do, Ali, is one of the oldest legal strategies in the book. When you get a witness in a case, what would a lawyer do if that witness happened to be, let\'s be a prostitute? He attacked her credibility so much that what she saw, heard, and experienced was not true. What Giuliani is trying to do here is that he is absolutely trying to slander this woman, and by the way, based on everything I read about her, I followed her tweets. She\'s self-confident. She is very satisfied with her work. She is not shy about it. In fact, when, as you said, she was standing in front of the current president of the United States and all the other women were hiding, I understand why they didn\'t want to go through this kind of slander. The real problem here is, as I say every time on your show, the problem here is a name Donald J. Trump. He\'s the problem. He is a man who lacks credibility. He\'s a guy who has problems sleeping with playmates and porn stars, you can say that. He\'s the problem. MELBER: Yes. If Rudy is going there, it\'s part of the news show now, because that\'s 2018 of the guest we\'re talking about in soft porn streaming videos. We are not going to play this video. It`s 6:25 p. m. The West Coast. But we will read. BuzzFeed reports that Donald Trump has appeared in the 2000 Playboy video. Trump\'s role is relatively \"benign \". \"It depends on what you think about it, but the point is that he broke a bottle of champagne on the Playboy brand\'s limo while several playmates were visiting New York City. I mean, like all these stories, you can\'t make up. What Rudy says is legally invalid, logically absurd, but also happens to be hypocritical, because Donald Trump is also in movies like this. Nelson: look. I think, whether he is in a movie or not, I\'m not as interested in this as I am in lying, smeared patterns and practices ,(INAUDIBLE) The tactic is that we have lawyers come to fix things, we have people go to people and threaten them in the parking lot, as stomi Daniels said. He\'s the problem. But I think Giuliani\'s point is the worst speaker in the history of the speaker. If he were my lawyer, I would have fired him long ago because I think he put the president in deeper trouble, Ali. I don\'t think he can help him. MELBER: Yes. Grier: But Giuliani is the same as Trump. Trump says he will be ruled by chaos. Every time Giuliani says something, from the morning and the evening he shows up on all these different shows, it\'s usually contradictory. Trump really likes it because we sometimes chase the wrong things in the media. What we are talking about now is the storm Daniels and the storm insults. We\'re not actually talking about Donald J. Trump is the current president of a sick liar. I think you make a lot of sense. This is also part of regulation, how much time and effort you give (INAUDIBLE) It also covers everything else and everyone who handles it. We already talked. INAUDIBLE) Defense with Rudy Giuliani before the show. You get more defense of chaos. I mean, it\'s just crazy mess and then you have to decide how close you want to be to the mess? I mean, we know Trump too, I mean, he likes to throw mud. So, everyone will eventually screen out in the mud while trying to find the truth. But, as we are doing, just, you now, he is actually like tar. The more you touch him, the deeper you are. Unfortunately, as a country, 0. 32 billion of us are now connected to him. MELBER: Right. I think it\'s like (INAUDIBLE) Who says it\'s hard to keep clean when you ride dirty. Thank you, Sophia Nelson and Kristina Greer. Today is an unprecedented hearing. A federal judge is looking at how people can sue Trump for these foreign money payments. Senator Blumenthal explained here. But first, Trump\'s EPA chief has been attacked for new corruption charges and a strange lotion errand and an old mattress. We will be back in 60 seconds. ( Business break) Melber: Let\'s take a look at the other headlines tonight. It\'s about blatant corruption at the top of the Trump administration, and it\'s also a lotion. Trump\'s EPA chief now faces 15 different ethical investigations into corruption and abuse of power. Some involve environmental sanitation throughout the country. The others are dealing with the annoying scale, which is actually hard to do, like the news tonight, where Pruitt may have violated federal rules and asked his security guard to find his favorite moisturizing lotion. Now, if you want to be fair to anyone-is he a bureaucrat? Maybe you can make excuses for why a person out there may need someone to pick up his personal belongings here or there, whether it\'s lotion, hand sanitizer or whatever you need to spend the day. But as with many things in Pruitt, the details didn\'t help him. Taxpayers pay $3. Security details for 5 million years. Not only did he ask them to buy the lotion, but he also quoted \"directing agents to drive him to multiple places to look for the specific lotion provided by the Ritz-Carlton hotel. Today, Vox reports, Ritz. Carlton sells its brand of Jasmine moisturizing lotion for $27. 00 for a 17- Ounce bottles and this pursuit of soft skin are not isolated. Other loopholes Xiupu wasted $1,500 in taxes 12 custom pens, what, $60,000 fancy tickets and hotels, and another $43,000 in sound-proof phone booths. But the leaks have exposed what Pruitt calls fraud. Not only is this an abuse of his work and a waste of public resources, there may also be a neurosis here. Given that he has apparently made special arrangements to continue enjoying a discounted lunch at the White House canteen until they really ask him not to notice any more that we like to have Sir But it is not used everyday. One of his bills is $400. So, from lotion to pen, you\'re starting to wonder if Prut is not ashamed to try out if there\'s any additional benefit or discount for the police. In the words of rapper 21 Savage, Scott Pruitt is the kind of person who queues for free stuff, which of course is not cool. Of all the discounts, this is someone who looks more like Pruitt finally plays himself as he was arrested for pushing his assistant to buy him an old mattress deal from the Trump hotel. Look what you want. But if you like the discount that comes with mattresses that others have already used, would you still be inclined to have a mattress from a previous owner, not hundreds of different hotel guests per year? Now talk to me about this important story, which is Sam side, the host of most report podcasts. Go ahead. Host Sam side: Thank you for your pen. I-you know, I really don\'t have an explanation for this guy going out. I don\'t know. Neither do I. SEDER: I mean, maybe he was trying to please me and say dog pull, I \'ve been eating this mattress for years. But I mean, on the bottom line, there\'s a low quality What you see is not just the corruption of Scott Pruitt\'s local politicians. I mean, to some extent, he\'s a metaphor for the whole government. You know, I\'m going to be a city councillor because I\'m going to get the proper zoning for my hardware store. You see-Melber: is it a metaphor that we are all forced to sleep on the old hotel mattress? To some extent, yes. Basically, I don\'t know how to explain it. I mean, I don\'t know what kind of prank he\'s going to do, or-MELBER: I can give you an anti as a lawyer Argue for one of them. SEDER: Please. Mayber: that\'s probably the Ritz lotion. SEDER: Well, I probably don\'t want to get into the sulfuric acid you know or if you need it, but-because it\'s not my expertise either. But you get into a position where you take the idea as much as you can, and you get into government service because it basically gives you a main course to get you whatever you want, take whatever you want. I think this is the vast majority of the Donald Trump administration. You know, then another question is, what does it take to get fired, and why climb such a steep mountain? I mean-Melber: what does this need, is it known that the fish will rot from the head? Is the well-known free lotion from the top? I mean, it\'s something Donald Trump is a bit famous. Look at what he said this week. ( Start Video Editing) S. President Donald Trump: Chief executive Scott Pruitt, thank you very much Scott. EPA did a very, very good job. You know, some people have to say that about you, you know Scott. But you \'ve-you \'ve done it-and I\'m telling you that the EPA is doing a good job and people are impressed with what the EPA is doing. (END VIDEO CLIP) SEDER: look, like Donald Trump I think-appreciate a good thief, someone will take a little more than they should, in my opinion, it\'s a thing that gets a lot of other people fired. Of course. SEDER: So you have to ask what\'s going on here. Frankly, I think the answer is Harold ham. Harold Hamm is the one who helped Scott Pruitt play. He was co- One of Scott Pruitt\'s re- Campaign. He\'s 0. 1 billion millionaire fracker, pushing some federal and legislation, and I think that\'s a function of Donald Trump and Scott Pruitt, who basically has a sugar dad. I think that sugar dad is Harold ham. And-because buying an old mattress won\'t get you fired from Donald Trump because he doesn\'t appreciate his beard, so he won\'t hire Bolton for the first time, and I don\'t know anything. You have to ask why. I mean, who\'s protecting this guy? Frankly, I think it\'s the billionaire. MELBER: Right. That is-this is a good point you put forward, it also involves the important things here, in addition to the strange, embarrassing paltry of many acts, it also involves the idea of the government that this is a huge issue, not an ideological issue that I should mention for the sake of selling and getting rich personally. It\'s not about things, it\'s just about whether you\'re honest in government. Sam, please stay when we talk about another issue. I want to call a senator as promised. This is an unprecedented event today. 200 different Democratic lawmakers have brought Trump to court on these foreign donations. The main plaintiff was Senator Blumenthal, who told the federal judge through his lawyer that Trump was taking money from these foreign governments. ( Start Video Editing)SEN. Richard blumenthal (D) Connecticut: The question here is not just about honesty or corruption in government, but about national security. Who would have thought that I had never thought that I was standing on the steps of the court trying to enforce the pay clause against the president of the United States? This is something that has never happened before, because the president has complied with the law. (END VIDEO CLIP) Donald Trump never withdrew from his company. His children are said to run them and he holds shares. I would like to ask the senator to discuss all this. Senator Blumenthal and I discussed with you that it was obviously a busy day for you and your colleagues. plaintiffs. Why is it important for you to take this additional measure? You have power in the Senate, you can keep the appointee, you have the right to vote, but you are going to the third department, why? BLUMENTHAL: Ari, ironically, passing the Federal Court is the only way to actually be the only game in town to play as a means of law enforcement. The president is blatant about deliberately getting paid and benefits from foreign governments, whether through the Trump Tower in New York, the Chinese or the Trump hotel in Washington, DC. C. Governments from Saudi Arabia and countless other countries, or through China\'s $0. 5 billion loan to his resort in Indonesia, along with the approval of the Indonesian government. We know these payments and benefits just because of our free media coverage. He said nothing. Basically, we can\'t do our job when we refuse-Melber: Yes, you say-what you say is so important. You said he didn\'t reveal anything. The initial commitment was that the Trump Organization would voluntarily quantify and hand over any money directly from foreign governments. Are you saying they just completely violated this? BLUMENTHAL: we cannot know because he refuses to disclose to us truthfully and accurately. So our request to the court is that we need to do what we do on behalf of the American people and is the only person who has the right to bring this lawsuit to court to enforce what is the real chief Counter There are corruption provisions in our laws and in our Constitution, which is why we appear in court. Melber: Let\'s go. let\'s go to the court. You mentioned this and many of our viewers know it because people like it (INAUDIBLE) After Richard painter was indicted, there were indeed some long-standing problems with whether they could file an appeal, yadda. You guys have more success, but what\'s going on in court today? I mean, you obviously want to win, but can you confirm or provide us with any evidence as to why you might be on your way today or not? BLUMENTHAL: for 45 years in court, Ari, I have never predicted the results. I have never said whether I am confident or optimistic, but because the judge asked all the right questions, I am very, very hopeful and encouraging. He knows these questions very well. Most notably, he understands that we need to do our job, and we cannot do that if the president refuses to come to us and approve his payments and benefits. That\'s what environmental terms say. The president of the United States must come to Congress before receiving these payments and benefits, and the judge knows clearly that we need to do our job. Melber: Senator, before you join us, we are discussing the Prut moral scandal with Sam side, who I think has a problem. SEDER: Senator, I think I have an issue with pay, if there is no mechanism, if there is no disclosure, if there is absolutely no way for you to judge whether the pay clause has been violated to some extent, so what is the meaning of the compensation clause? BLUMENTHAL: good question. The answer is that the president refuses to comply with the law and puts himself above the law, and if the court refuses to intervene, we make the compensation clause meaningless. But it is enforceable, and we ask the court to issue an order telling the president that you are not higher than the law, that you have to come to Congress to seek congressional consent, that it is approved or not, this requires you to tell Congress about these payments and benefits. MELBER: Right. BLUMENTHAL: they can\'t be the door to the office. In this busy court, Senator Blumenthal, thank you for joining us. Sam Cedar, thank you for everything you talked about for us. Speaking of the meeting with North Korea, Donald Trump said it was all a matter of attitude. Art deals of cooperation Author Tony Schwartz is here to talk about Trump\'s next emotional wavelength. ( Business break) Melber: Foreign policy can be complicated, but President Trump said today that his plans and talks with North Korea are all about attitude. ( Start Video Editing) I think I am well prepared. I don\'t think you have to prepare too much. This is about attitude and willingness to do things. (END VIDEO CLIP) MELBER: the willingness to get things done is in stark contrast to people who don\'t want to get things done. Of course, this is the classic Trump says he doesn\'t need details. For him, it was all about the emotion and attitude of the event. My next guest. Tony Schwartz, author of the art of trading, said that the impact of Trump\'s most common emotional appeals is focused on anger designed to trigger a variety of emotions, anger, even the hatred of the people who became his supporters. ( Start Video Editing) Trump: Get him out. Get out. I am angry that our leaders are so stupid. But if you see someone ready to throw tomatoes, will you knock out their trash? I will tell you that I like to hit him in the face. (END VIDEO CLIP) Melber: Schwartz believes that the effect of this attraction to anger is actually overwhelming rationality. Emotions need to be controlled. He likens it to someone trying to ride an elephant, but you lose control of the more powerful animals. Now, all kinds of politicians have long been calling for emotion. ( Start Video Editing)JOHN F. Former President Kennedy of the United States: this peace that makes life on Earth worth living, allows mankind and the country to grow and hope. Former US president bill clinton: I\'m going to finish everything tonight and everything starts with me. I still believe in a place called Hope. Former US President Barack Obama: I have never been as hopeful about our future as we are now. I have never been as hopeful about America as I am now. I want you to keep that hope. (END VIDEO CLIP) Melber: those emotional skin changes are the winners. Others, such as Michael Dukakis and John Kerry, are at least seen as more focused on ability or technical bureaucratic expertise and have lost the presidential race. But Trump is not just scaring people with primitive emotions, he is digging into these deeper feelings and fears that don\'t make a choice between different outcomes, it is sometimes a reaction that is beyond the control of the people of the country. Tony Schwartz joined me. He is also the CEO of the energy project and the best-selling author of How We don\'t work. Explain what your feelings about anger mean. Tony Schwartz, CEO of the energy project: we have two selves. As you pointed out in the introduction, we have riders, and this is the rational self. We thought we were like this. Then we have the elephant-and by the way, the metaphor comes from someone named Jonathan Haite at New York University. We have elephants here. why don\'t we have them here? Good question. Good question. I think you should invite him. he\'s great. Then we have elephants, which actually dominate our behavior a lot of times, and elephants are irrational, reactive, fearful -- Our own drive is very inconsistent with who we think we are. In a world where people like Trump have been playing in fear, what he is doing is inciting elephants. In his own actions, he normalizes the reactions we see in this world. So you know I\'m thinking today about the famous book Hannah Arendt\'s \"The evil of mediocrity\" about the Ajman trial, and her point is that your main fear is to normalize this behavior. What happens to our brains, and when we abuse our brains, we use our brains. We abuse our brains to rationalize the worst we do-we do it on our own initiative. Melber: you seem to be pointing out two things. First, even in a modern society where anger is believed to have largely dealt with some of them, the power and priority of anger is the same. But second, a personal or intellectual vanity, if we personally or collectively think we are better than that, then we are not prepared to discover it when it happens. Schwartz: That\'s definitely right. We think we are more evolved than we actually are. There is also the ability to step back and observe yourself, especially when you feel dangerous or threatened, angry or frustrated or fear begins to appear, pay attention to the activation of your body in order to be able to see this, what you know of Trump is to give everyone a lesson on what not to do. In fact, what we need to do is get rid of this intellectual vanity from this arrogance. We need to move from arrogance to humility. Melber: So, let\'s take it to another macro debate, that\'s what\'s real, what you believe in, or everyone has their own truth or emotional truth. Michael Wolfe has made a very concise defense of his book, which is also very disturbing if you believe in the facts. Take a look. ( Start Video Editing) Michael Wolfe, author of fire and anger: My evidence is this book. Read the book. If it makes sense to you, if it raises a question, if it is real, then it is real. (END VIDEO CLIP) If it\'s true to you, it\'s true. I mean, it\'s a disturbing comment. We do act on this assumption. In other words, if someone thinks something is right, we think it\'s right. If we don\'t abuse reason to rationalize afterwards, if we use reason to cut off emotions, then it will become our ally. So we need to be able to stretch back, take a deep breath, feel our feet, ask ourselves these reflective questions, instead of simply going down to the response Trump wants us to make, he\'s normalized, he\'s doing this every day, our lives. MELBER: Right. It\'s very important when you say that, because it\'s not just judging other people you might not agree with, but seeing that in the wolf case, it\'s a confirmation, prejudice some of the things we discussed before to prove that you may not like him because you are looking for emotional verification. Tony Schwartz: as always. Melber: As always, thank you for coming. I have one more thing to tell you when we come back. Stay tuned. ( Business break) Maybe you watch the beat, but have you heard it? We are pleased to inform you that we have launched a podcast for the show. You are looking for the purple podcast icon on the iPhone home screen. Click there and go to the search bar and if you don\'t have enough time, type the beat with Ari Melber or Melber and click on it. You can find shows and extra shows. For example, our entire unedited interview with Sy Hersh is there and you can only find something in our podcast. Stay tuned. ( Business break) Melber: Tomorrow will be a critical moment in Russia\'s investigation, with the deadline for former Trump campaign president Paul Manafort to respond to Bob Mueller\'s motion to substantially withdraw bail for tampering with witnesses. That document was submitted tomorrow and we will report it right away. Of course, you can find us at 6: 00. m. East tomorrow. Next is Chris Matthews\'s hard ball \". Chris Matthews, MSNBC host: from the mayor of the United States to Trump\'s attack dog. Let\'s play hard ball. This is a report card in a hurry. This copy may not be in final form and may be updated. Content and Programming Copyright 2018 MSNBC. All rights reserved. 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